Wake up and Thrive
Bridget Covill is a Feminine Embodiment/ Relationship Coach, a wife, a mom of 4, and a Women's health RN sharing tangible tools to help you FEEL wildly turned on by life again. She is the CEO of Find Her Wild Coaching. In this space, we will apply holistic coaching tools to everyday moments that we deem hard. Instead of allowing these experiences to keep us stuck, we will lean into their lessons and let them wake us up. These tools will help you connect deeper to yourself, your purpose, and to the people in your life. Grab a cup of coffee, have something to take notes and keep an open mind. It's time....it's time to WAKE UP & THRIVE.
Wake up and Thrive
086: Embodied Boundaries with The MotherHood Mentor
Embark on a journey to personal empowerment with the guidance of motherhood mentor and somatic life coach, Rebecca Dollard. Together, we tackle the transformative power of setting and respecting healthy boundaries. Rebecca illuminates the path to leading a life that's in tune with your deepest values, helping you craft a world where 'no' is not a barrier but a bridge to stronger, more authentic connections.
In this episode's heart-to-heart, we confront the raw intricacies of relationship dynamics, especially within the family unit. Through candid discussions and real-life scenarios, we navigate the delicate art of boundary setting with emotional maturity. Acknowledging the struggles, growth, and sometimes grief that accompanies asserting one's space, we provide practical wisdom on how to approach these challenges with honesty and a deep sense of self-trust.
Finally, we hone in on the crucial role of communication and the trust that blooms from the ability to assert one's needs. With Rebecca's expert lens, learn to recognize your worth and the profound effect that clear boundaries can have not just on personal wellbeing but on the health of all relationships. This conversation isn't merely about learning to draw lines; it's about embodying them and engaging with the world from a place of love and respect.
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If you want to inquire about coaching and receiving support in helping you create stronger connections to yourself, your purpose, and those in your life email me your story here....bridget@findherwildcoaching.com
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Hi, my name is Bridget and this is my podcast, wake Up and Thrive. My intention for this space is to help women around the world live more awake, aligned and truly alive. I believe wholeheartedly that we are designed to live, feel and experience the full range that life has to offer, and in doing so, we can live fully turned on in all areas. My story began with sobriety and has since been an initiation into rediscovering parts of myself that I forgot about or had abandoned. Learning to reclaim all of who I am has been the greatest gift of living awake, and together we will go on a journey of helping you to do the same. You can expect to learn practical tools to help you connect deeper to yourself, your purpose and those in your life. All you need is an open heart and an open mind. So if you're ready, it's time. It's time to wake up and thrive. Good morning and welcome back to Wake Up and Thrive.
Speaker 1:I have such an amazing guest today. This is my friend, rebecca Dollard, aka known as the motherhood mentor in the personal development space. Rebecca Dollard, she is a somatic life coach, teacher and speaker. She specializes in holistic healing, which is one of the reasons I just love all of her teachings. We have a lot of traumatic part work and shadow work, emotional intelligence, anyograms and boundaries, and today, on today's episode, we are going to dive deep into the boundaries. I personally really consider Rebecca an expert in this field, but before we get into that and I pass it off to her, I want to share how we connected. So I have been Instagram stalking Rebecca for years and I've joined a few of her classes and, as you guys know, I've been in the space for a while. But I walk away with every teaching learning something new, because she has a really big, true gift of explaining what can sometimes feel really woo-woo and sort of out of reach and bringing it into real life like real, tangible ways to embody this work.
Speaker 1:And then, as my listeners, you guys know, I connect with women who do not just talk the talk but walk the walk, and so the irony of talking today with Rebecca about boundaries is that we have been experiencing this sort of behind the scenes.
Speaker 1:So once we connected and I came out from stalking her and we became best friends and we've been sort of going back and forth with some collaboration opportunities and in this process I have witnessed her firsthand practice, what she preaches when it comes to boundaries and what I want to just say again before I let allow her to really introduce who she is. It is so refreshing to be in relationships with people who have healthy boundaries and can communicate it from love. It has been so easy on my end to receive a no or receive a not, yet with somebody that I can trust is embodied in those boundaries and we'll get into what that really means. But all that to say, she has so much expertise in education, what I love the most about her as she is embodied in what she teaches. So with that, rebecca, I'm so grateful for your time and you coming on to my space in my community, so welcome.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. This is the most generous intro ever. I'm just like blushing a little like well, thank you, I receive it. Thank you.
Speaker 1:So generous, I genuinely, genuinely meet it. I actually might guess know this, but you might not. I do not ask anyone and everyone to come on here. I have to have some sort of relationship and really, yeah, I really value who I bring into my community. So, yeah, I meant every word. So, thank you.
Speaker 2:And I. What I love, too, is that being in relationship with people who are also good at receiving boundaries, because that's its own discomfort. It's uncomfy to set boundaries, but it's just as uncomfy to receive them sometimes, and it what's really cool is how quickly and how deeply that instantly connected us. Yes, that that was a connection building moment, when it could have been something that made us both be a little awkward and like accidentally ghost each other. Yes, because the weirdness right.
Speaker 1:Yes, and yet it became like this connection building thing and I want to get into maybe we could even share the details a little bit of what we're talking about. But I would love you you know the infamous, who are you and what do you do. I would love you to just share, most importantly when it comes to boundaries, like who were you before this work and how did you get to where you are today in what I really do consider such an expert in this field.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So when it comes to boundaries who I was I would use air quotes here of, like who I was before boundaries. You know, my first introduction to boundaries was in therapy, as a little kid learning how to cut out an abuser, which is pretty intense, Like that's a pretty intense boundary. And yet boundaries became really weird when relationship was reconnected with abusers, so like abuser was out of the life and then abuser came back into the life.
Speaker 2:You know, thanks to church trauma and them just preaching forgiveness as the ultimate healing way for abuse and I mentioned that because I think it's powerful to say that, like, my first introduction to boundaries was how do we build a wall with someone who is at the highest level of abusive? And then I experienced this weird kind of wishy-washiness with boundaries, where it was like, but wait, it's okay to be in relationship with someone who is creating things in your body. And then I had these responses, these reactions of I'm not healthy anymore, even if they're not doing anything, so there's no behavior happening, but there's something happening in my body. And then, as I became an adult, I had babies really young, right, so I was 21 when I became a mama.
Speaker 2:And I really quickly was so confused especially in the toddler era I was doing a lot of deep inner healing that I didn't expect and all of a sudden I was like feeling in my body this okay, I get boundaries with abusive people, I get family who's toxic, because you know, part of that story is that later on there we I went no contact again. We went no contact again with this abusive family system and I learned really well, like how uncomfy and sad and grief weird mixed grief of loving people who are quite literally harming you emotionally, mentally, physically. But then I had this weird season where I was like, wait, I need boundaries with my toddler, I need boundaries with my husband who, like his intentions are all right and like he loves me and adores me and he's, he's a healthy human, even if he's not treating me in the way that like feels really good. Or figuring out boundaries with myself, because I was emotionally and mentally abusive to myself quite literally, and even when you look at how I was treating my body, I was restricting in ways that were harming me. And so boundaries started as this how do I keep people out?
Speaker 2:Yes, but then, as maturity came, and then, especially when I got into coaching right coaching. I had done a lot of therapy and therapy was great for figuring out you know why I was the way I was and why I had these fawning patterns and codependency and fawning and this lack of boundaries and people pleasing. You know I had language for it. But what coaching brought me? What coaching taught me, and specifically when I got into somatic coaching, was understanding boundaries at an energetic level of understanding that boundaries are not just about controlling behavior, either my own or someone else's. It is quite literally being in tune with and then owning responsibility over what I need. Ooh.
Speaker 2:What do you want? It's feeling in my body, what is a yes and what is a no. And also the part that gets missed in that conversation around like behavioral boundaries that most people talk about, which is like how to cut off relationship. But this nuance, how do we use boundaries as a way to create and protect our relationships? I didn't want to cut my husband out, I didn't want to cut my toddler out, and yet my body was saying no to them. So how did I understand the feeling and the nuance of?
Speaker 2:How do I take a no and make it a yes when I want something? I want to want it, I want to want to do this thing or I want to stop doing the thing that I'm doing? Because boundaries are yes, no, and also contextual. It's a hell yes on this day and then tomorrow it's going to be a no, because my body is different every day, my capacity is different. Situations and connections and relationships. They change and they shift, and so wouldn't it make sense that our boundaries get to change from like little mini markers to like these big, massive things, like there's a whole range of?
Speaker 1:boundaries, yes, and wait, I want to pause you right there, because you said the two words that I also feel really aligned with in boundaries, and I don't think it's taught this way. Boundaries is not always Sometimes. I love that you started with your example. I didn't know your history, so I really thank you for sharing that part of your story.
Speaker 1:It isn't just about keeping toxicity out, it is almost, it is always even about, even when it is, even when the goal is to keep toxicity out, the how do I want to say this, like the reason boundaries are so important, is not to focus on the toxicity but on your capacity. That was the word that you used, that I love that word that when it becomes about my capacity, it can be fluid, it can shift and change. I can be in relationship with someone that is not a good person in this moment because I am in charge of my boundaries. They don't get to rule that, and I think every time we focus on the toxicity or them I love. You described it as a wall, so like if boundaries aren't a wall, what are they?
Speaker 2:So I love that you went there and I think first one thing I want to touch on is witnessing. Boundaries are for protection. Boundaries protect what we value and what we hold sacred, and even if you're talking about boundaries as a wall as a wall with someone who is abusive or toxic you are protecting something sacred and when you've set a boundary, it is loving because it is honoring the fact that that person is choosing that behavior. That's their sovereignty, that's within their choosing, that is within their personal responsibility to say this is who I want to be, this is how I'm going to be in relationship to you, and then it is your job to say yes, I want to be in relationship with who you actually are, how you actually are, not this version of you that I think you should be or who I want you to be. Right, I see this especially with women and their parents.
Speaker 2:They have this relationship with who they think their parents should be or who they want them to be, not with who their parents are. Ooh, and it continues to harm the relationship, because these women behave in ways with their parents expecting that their lack of boundaries will invite the parent to change their behavior, but it won't. What changes people's behavior is when we say this is how I'm willing to be in relationship with you, can you meet me here? And so the way that I teach women boundaries is these kind of different layers of windows, doors, bridges and walls. They are points of connection, but the first boundary that we always work with, if we're ever doing boundaries with someone else, especially if I'm working long term with a woman we don't start with the relational boundary. We don't start with a conversation with the other person, we don't start with what their behavior is. We start with her bubble boundaries, as I like to call them, and that is are you in relationship and connection to what you're feeling and what you know? Can you feel your anger? Can you feel your rage? Can you feel your know in your body? Because that know might be nuanced. Is the know a general know of like, absolutely not to this person, or is it for one behavior? Is it a know to the way that you're connecting?
Speaker 2:But in order to know, in order to have that embodied boundary with the other person, you have to be able to feel yourself. That's where most women go wrong. Is we jump into this? I need boundaries, yeah, and we look at this list of rules of what boundaries look like and then we try to apply it to our lives and it doesn't feel good, or we end up telling someone a boundary, but then we never have our backs because we haven't built up self-trust, we haven't built up this self-confidence to understand. I know what I know. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm willing to sit in the conflict within myself. I trust myself with inner conflict and therefore I trust this conflict now coming outward with you, because that takes a lot of emotional, mental maturity and self-trust and confidence to be in relationship with someone who may not receive boundaries in the way that you and I have that boundaries conversation. Right Right, you know we didn't know each other well enough. I had a pretty good feeling you would respond well to like a hey, this is a no for me and that's not my job, yeah Right.
Speaker 2:But, women are so terrified because we have learned to not internally pay attention. We have learned to pay attention to the rules. There's a list of the rules of engagement, both for ourselves and other people, and we look to that list of rules to say what is and isn't allowed. And that's why women ignore the smoke until there's burnout. There's a fire right In your business. You're like well, it's not toxic yet, it's not abusive yet, and so we ignore all of these small little boundary breaks of windows and doors and bridges and we can go into like my little.
Speaker 2:I hadn't planned on doing like that whole system of boundaries because I don't know we could go there if we want to, but all of a sudden we have to have a wall. Yeah, yeah, that little no, that little no in us, that little anger in us that said that's not quite it. Or even that little part of us that said you know what? I want something different. Yeah, this isn't it. When we ignore those small, subtle shifts, it's like this little toddler, our emotions become this little toddler who says my needs aren't getting met.
Speaker 1:I'm going to get louder.
Speaker 2:That toddler has two choices that toddler is going to get louder and louder and louder and they're going to throw a fit and they are going to be un what's the word? Unconsolable until there is a big, massive shift. Yes. Or that little toddler shuts down and is numb and repressed and they stop acting right and I see both happening in women. They externally explode and they have to burn everything down, or they internally implode and they start burning themselves out and down, trying to navigate all of these tiny little boundary breaks that are happening everywhere, because they didn't feel them or acknowledge them or trust themselves, which is our fault, but it is now our responsibility.
Speaker 1:Yes, let me pause you because I agree we can go so many different avenues. I am super curious about how you described boundaries as different layers. But first going back to what you even described, because what I see in my clients is they will. Specifically, you talked about parents and let's talk about that. They have a boundary with mom, like mom, I am no longer going to talk about this and then mom ignores the boundary because mom is mom and mom wants to know. So mom's going to ask, and then the woman or the client just is beyond themselves. She's not listening to my boundaries, she's not respecting me and everything gets burned down. There's no sovereignty.
Speaker 1:I love that you use that word. So explain a little bit. It's not just this cut and dry of you can't do this. You said you first have to start with even understanding your own personal, like your own. No, I'm not even saying this. Right, let me think here. What I see is that people do miss the cues. They miss the cues a lot oftentimes. So mom is calling frequently and asking these questions. What I'm hearing you say is that if we can start to tune in and actually notice who, something feels off about that question. Can you walk me through then. What? What are the steps to becoming really, really good at then giving the boundary to mom, Because I love that you said it doesn't start there. It actually starts steps before that. So what does that look like?
Speaker 2:Well, the fun part of nuance is sometimes it does start there. This is what I love, so I'll kind of go the two different pathways that I would take. A client and I love the example that you just gave, so let's use this theoretical example of mom is having a conversation that daughter doesn't want to have. That's kind of what you threw out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, am I following? So let's say, mom comes over and she's having a conversation she doesn't want to have. Now, a lot of times what I see is when women are coming to me, they're already at stage seven. They've already been tolerating, tolerating, tolerating, tolerating, until something inside of them is quite literally saying I can't stand my mom, she's toxic for me.
Speaker 2:She like there's all of them like immaturity, and I say immaturity not as a shameful way, because I know we are instantly going to shame themselves for that. I say that as a mature adult is able to witness. My conflict is not with my mom, it's with this topic, the way she treats me in this way, because you have to be able to hold the conflict and the complexity of is it your mom? The whole way she interacts with you, the entire way she makes you feel, the things she says to you, her actions. Is this like a big, global, systematic problem or is this like a? I don't like this and I don't want this.
Speaker 2:That's my feeling like is this a little no or is this a big no? Is this a little no? That became a big no because you ignored it and ignored it and ignored it, and your system is now trying to push her further away.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's good.
Speaker 2:So sometimes, if you are having a big global no to your mom, you might need a temporary wall, if you will, or a temporary, I would call it a pause boundary where you have enough mental, emotional, physical space away from her and the relationship that you can feel self again, that you can feel in your body and come back into your maturity. Because mom is for sure triggering the immature part of you. Mom is for sure triggering the wounds in you that think you're responsible for her emotions. Mom is probably triggering in you the part of you that thinks you can't win, that thinks she won't listen, and maybe those things are true. But also maybe, adult, you has never shifted the pattern of hey, mom, I'm not willing to have this conversation anymore. Or if you would like to talk about this, you're going to need to treat me with dignity and respect.
Speaker 1:So what is the self Like? What are the qualities of the self If someone's listening to you go? What is the self?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so literally feeling her own body, her own sensations, her own nose and her own values, her values of relationship. This is how people talk to me. These are the conversations I want to have, and these are conversations that I'm not willing to be in because they disrespect my dignity and worth. This is the way that I do and do not want to be in relationship with people. This is what I value and, quite simply, I think we a lot of times want to have some sort of validation. We need a reason for wanting what we want and not wanting what we don't want, and to be able to feel the self you have to just witness. This is my resistance, and it's beautiful. Yes, there's power there, and so being able to feel that self gives you permission to now say, okay, now that you are in your whole self, now we can talk about the way that you want to be in relationship to mom Got it.
Speaker 2:Now that you have had the space, so sometimes we can jump straight into what's the behavior boundary, which is where most people start, and when I do recommend women start with a behavior boundary if you will I'm using air quotes there. If you do start with a behavior boundary, give yourself permission that it's okay if it's temporary. I think a lot of people think it's either I'm in relationship or I'm out. It's like well, what if you just take a pause? And here's the beautiful thing, here's the beautiful permission I give women all the time that no one has told them. You don't have to tell other people your boundaries yes, a lot of times, sometimes we do. But it is also okay to literally just stop calling mom, stop inviting mom over, take a break, tell her you're busy, yeah, and we need to be careful because we are creating a relationship. And it's like is mom someone you want to just say like, hey, mom, I'm going through some stuff and I just need a little bit of space to figure it out. I love you and I'll talk to you later. And some moms can't hear that without it being this whole thing Right. And so you, as a mature adult, get to decide what information is mine to know and what information is important for her to know in order for us to be in right relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and right relationship is going to depend on who mom is and who you are and what system mom is operating in, because the really hard thing about boundaries especially if we're talking about boundaries with your parents they're often operating in the same system that you grew up in, and so your system wants to match theirs automatically. Okay, that's how families and communities work. This is the operating system of how we relate to each other. This is how we sweep shit under the rug and don't talk about it. This is how we exploded each other and then we pretend like nothing happened and there was no conflict resolution Right, there was no conflict and fighting and yelling, and then there's nothing, and then everyone pretends that everything is fine. So, all of a sudden, when you start thinking about boundaries, your system is going to say this isn't safe, it isn't okay, you're not allowed to do this, and that's why we have to separate ourselves and be able to feel is this the operating system you still want to be under? This is when people talk about breaking cycles.
Speaker 2:It's not always just abusive. It might just be you grew up in a family where they talk shit about their bodies and your mom keeps talking about diets and she keeps mentioning about how she's fat around your daughter and you're trying to change that narrative Right? Like I've worked with women who they love their moms. They have moms who love them. They have moms who are wonderful and giving but, like their mom still hasn't healed some shit and it's starting to rub off on their daughter and so the conversation is hey, mom, we're not going to talk about our bodies that way in front of our daughter.
Speaker 2:The boundary could be changing the conversation without ever addressing it. The boundary could be walking away. The boundary could be she's talking shit about her body and you speak up and say your truth about you. Know what I used to feel that way too, but you know what I've been learning and finding. But that moment, those moments of boundaries, those moments of stating a boundary to mom or setting a boundary without specializing, like this is a boundary Right and we have to like, make this like declaration. That moment will happen if you don't feel yourself. Otherwise, you'll just be chasing boundaries as a new way to manipulate their behavior, and that doesn't work.
Speaker 1:Ooh, wait that was a truth bomb. Yeah, well, it's so true and I really love that you went there with this, because I do think that was. My next question is what have you found to be like the reasons? It's hard to lay boundaries and before you answer that, what I have witnessed on my end and in my own life is absolutely what you just said, that it's the fear of saying it, of communicating it, and then we've got to deal with their reaction and all that. And when you keep it about the self and my own capacity versus the toxic behavior, it gives you more power. But it also it allows you to embody the boundary instead of just stating the boundary, because I think oftentimes we state the boundary that's said in a, like you said, a manipulative way, as in okay, I'm going to say the boundary so that she'll follow it and I don't actually have to keep it.
Speaker 1:Versus, like you're saying now is really connecting to your yes and no, noticing when mom's doing something. Hey, six months ago it was fine, but today it's not fine, it's not working anymore with what I'm. That's what I'm finding in my life. The deeper I go into this work, some of the everyday venting, gossiping, judging conversations are no longer a yes for me. They feel quite literally so suffocating. But it's with people I love, it's with people I've been in relationship with for years and so learning how to like even if you took that example how it's connecting to self, noticing my yes and no and then not necessarily communicating it, but just you said it earlier having my own back. If my boundary is I can't participate in these conversations, then I need to start actually taking action towards that.
Speaker 2:Well, because the reality is, boundaries isn't just something we make up, it's something that already is. Your boundaries already exist, but what's happening is that other people are, either well intentionally or not well intentionally, accidentally crossing them over and over and over again. But when we have bad boundaries, we're like this sponge and we're soaking up everything and it doesn't feel good. Or your boundaries are the other way and your boundaries are all walls and it's keeping people out because you don't want to be vulnerable. Yes, and our boundaries, they need to have this flexibility in order for them to feel good and to create life. And coming back to your question of I just lost it. What was that's?
Speaker 1:okay, so my question was mostly about, like, when we're not, what are the reasons that it's been hard? It's really hard for women. Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2:So it's really hard for all people. I don't think it's just women, but you know, specifically talking to women, because we learned based off of behavior and based off a set of rules. But here is the terrible, scary part about the rules as we became adults, we realized that the rules change depending on the room that we're in.
Speaker 2:The rules change depending on the relationships. And here's the other hard thing. We're in relationships, in a marriage, where, like, let's say, you got married in your early twenties, like I did my early twenties what I thought I wanted, what I thought I liked and what I didn't like, I didn't feel myself, I didn't have a self. And so as I started growing, as I started changing, I started realizing I'm no longer okay with the unspoken contracts that both you and I agreed upon and just started acting upon that neither of us ever verbally or explicitly said this is our role, this is the way we relate to conflict. I had this pattern of shutting down and not speaking out what I needed and wanted, and it wasn't for a lack of him, but I wanted to make him the problem. I kept trying to set these boundaries, making him the villain, and then I went into this cute different phase of healing where I made me always the problem.
Speaker 2:Interesting, shame and blame are two sides of the different coin and most of us move into boundary setting with shame and blame of either I'm the problem or you're the problem. Yes, and that is, whatever embodiment we go into it with, is what will be created at the end of it. So if I come into this saying you're the problem, you probably can't win, no matter what you do. If I come into it thinking I'm the problem, I can't win, no matter what I do, and we avoid boundaries one because, quite literally, it's just the water we swim in. This is not something they taught us in school. This is not something that our families were having active conversations about. Most women I know are just learning this type of boundaries. I'm still learning it. It's laughable that I teach and I love when you're like. I consider you an expert on boundaries because, like if you only knew, even just a couple of years ago and honestly, even in my everyday life, because where I'm worst at boundaries is with the people that I love and have the most collateral with.
Speaker 1:Honestly. Let's talk about that, let's go into that, because we do talk a lot about marriages in here. But I think, even just like your opening story of this was my first experience of boundaries. But then I got married, and I also got married young too. So I can really resonate with this part. Tell me how that worked Once you started to really know. So you're in the work, you're learning somatics, and those of you that don't know the word, we're talking about just connecting to your body. That's why I love that you really did say yourself is in your it's feeling yourself, it's feeling your sensation.
Speaker 2:I love that you're a whole person, because your mind part of your body, true. Your brain part of your body. Your thoughts part of your body, true. True so it's the whole self.
Speaker 1:True, but we need that and we need that whole picture, yeah, yeah. So you really tuning into your yes and no. You're starting to see, as you're married Okay, there's some I love this like uncommunicate or we didn't communicate. How did you say it? These contracts, these unsaid contracts, right, we just sort of like fell, fell prey to them. What did that look like within your marriage? Once your learning boundaries, did you immediately hit the hammer down and say like this is the new boundary, this is my non-negotiable, or how did that? How did that look? How was that received? Like, share a little bit there, if you're comfortable.
Speaker 2:I'm totally comfortable, but really quick I have to come back to so. We were talking about what stops us from setting boundaries. Oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:So the first thing and I have to go back to that, because the first thing is that, like our bodies just don't feel safe and they don't feel comfortable feeling uncomfortable One feeling our anger. They don't feel comfortable speaking to other people and saying this is what I need and want. Because, especially as women, we are rewarded for wanting what other people want us to want. We are rewarded for being good and nice and grateful and blessed. And the reality of boundaries is boundaries are saying I have limits, I cannot do everything, I am not everything and I refuse to play this role that is burning out my body. And I think what's beautiful with boundaries is sometimes we'll do the same behaviors, but we're choosing them. Boundaries are your choice. It's reconnecting to the self that is choosing the thing, not the self that is performing the thing. And there's a big difference because you might be choosing the same things when you start healing your boundaries, when you start healing from people pleasing, you might still look the same, but you will feel like a completely different person. But the second part to what stops us from setting boundaries is the very real reality and the very grief of sometimes, after a boundary, you don't feel like this badass like look at me, you are on your knees crying and sobbing because boundaries are coming into reality with some really hard shit, and you were avoiding setting that boundary because you knew your dad wasn't going to listen. You were avoiding setting that boundary because deep down, you know that they're not going to change that. They couldn't, even if they wanted to right, Because boundaries don't have to be about shaming other people as toxic, because, let's be honest, those people are probably trying their hardest.
Speaker 2:And setting boundaries sometimes means this deep grief of they are not who I wanted them to be, they are not who I need them to be and this is who they are and I'm going to be in relationship with who they are and how they're behaving, not who I want them to be. And there's a grief behind that. We avoid setting boundaries to avoid feeling the deep grief, but we're not really avoiding it. It's just getting stuck down in our bodies. So I just I had to like say that part because I think you know people talk about oh, I said these boundaries and everything feels so good. It's like it does feel good, but also sometimes it feels terrible.
Speaker 1:No, and this is why I love your teachings, because this is real, this is 100% real. I mean, even even we were kind of like alluding to our example, but Rebecca had asked me to come out to be in a retreat and it would have required me to fly out there and I was. We both wanted it really badly.
Speaker 2:We desired it so badly oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:We're like we're going to make this work and this is on my vision board and yada, yada yada. But there was a big part that that it didn't feel good if I was really being honest with myself, but I just didn't have the balls to say it. So when she said it, I it was like ooh, and I said it to her because we had that relationship. I said, ooh, okay, this was just a full day of getting those, so it definitely stung. But when you can and again that was on the receiving end, so you can talk a little bit about what it was like to actually say it. But it doesn't always feel good, it doesn't mean it's wrong.
Speaker 2:Oh, it felt terrible. It felt terrible, especially Okay. So this is hilarious. I'm not going to go too deep into the TMI, but I'm super Ludial, okay, and I knew that. I knew that. But the beauty of being Ludial is that I'm very, very sensitive. Yes To my yes and my no, almost too much Like I'm almost like a teen girl who's like a little bit dramatic about it. So I had to have some maturity within myself and be like this is not a big deal. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like this is. This is not earth shattering. And then I had to trust myself. And here's the other beautiful part I had to trust you. Yeah. Of like you know what, I like her so much that I would rather tell her no and have both of us disappointed than lie to her, because me telling you yes would have been a lie, because there was, there was some little no in me, right.
Speaker 2:There was some little, no, even not in my body but in the body of my business there was this little bit of no and it was really easy for me to ignore that because of my desire of like this is such a good thing, right, I'm doing good things with good people and I was like you know, I'm gonna love me and her enough and I'm gonna trust this relationship and I'm gonna tell her no. And you know, in this context I was like I'm gonna tell her why. I'm also gonna say like hey, this might feel really uncomfy and hurt, but can we talk about it because Rupture is unavoidable. The closer you get to people, the closer and more intimate and more deep and more real you want your relationships to be, the more rupture there's going to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the problem is not the rupture. The problem is when there is no repair.
Speaker 1:Amen.
Speaker 2:And so when I came to you at the boundary, I was also aware like this is probably gonna feel uncomfy, especially because I changed my answer. I think you said that too, I think my answer. And do you know how hard it is to go to people, one as a professional, but two as someone who, like I, want to be very honest. And it's hard to go to people and say, like you know what, I changed my mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah it feels different today than it was and the more I my incident yes was genuine Right also the more I sat with it and as my vision for the retreat started changing and as the body of it started changing, I had this like it's not a full yes anymore right and I had to kind of play it out of. Do I want to create an environment where this little bit of no can change, can shift, which is a whole nother level of Maturity and boundaries? Is I want to want this thing or I don't want to want this thing anymore? Does that make sense? Yes, yeah, so you're leaving space to let it. How do I shift and change and own my choosing to shift my boundaries, not from Bypassing my need or my value, but from changing my capacity?
Speaker 1:Yeah changing my vision Around what I say no or yes to yeah, no, I'm completely following I and I would love to just share because I think that this you can maybe take what I'm about to say and then we can even go back to some of the other examples if that feels feels better for you, I. One of the things that I noticed going through this is, once you said no, it allowed me to then get in touch with my yes and no, and I think that's just something to pay attention to when we're giving boundaries, because oftentimes you know, for example, back to that mother-in-law or the mother Conversation, when you say no and you let name the boundary, let's say you are in a relationship where you can communicate that boundary. Be very clear. Sometimes you can't, and I love that you gave that option, but if you can, if it's not received, well, now you've gifted that person.
Speaker 1:Right, like in my, in my example, like I was gifted. Okay, now I've got to sit with my Self my yes, my no, my boundary, my. Where did I drop myself? Where did I not stay true to what I wanted? Why am I actually showing up in this behavior? You know I'm giving like a lot of different examples all mashed up in one, but I think it's just important to know that by you said at the beginning it is the most loving thing you can do for yourself and the person you're in relationship.
Speaker 2:Because what I did and you know, we're getting really like I know but I love it because it's a good example.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what I did Created a precedence in our friendship where you're allowed to say no to me, correct yes to me and then change your mind. We just created a contract of In this friendship and this way of our connection, we're allowed to tell each other the truth. We're allowed to say yes and then change our answer to no. When it prioritizes what we value, it created a shift and it created a chance for us to say we're not gonna lie to each other, we're not gonna people please with each other, we're not gonna fond of each other, we're gonna be genuine.
Speaker 2:And guess what? When we, when I say that now you feel permission to say no to me someday. Yes, because you know, oh, she's someone who can handle that, she's someone who has enough emotional, mental, relational maturity To do this. And the reality is, when I meet women who tell me no, something in me clicks and says I can trust her. Mm-hmm, I can trust her when I go and hang out with her and there's like this weird vibe. I don't have to go home and think she doesn't really want to hang out with me.
Speaker 2:Because, I know, if she doesn't want to hang out, she's just gonna tell me that, right, I don't have to create this story About the relationship. It can just be, and I think this happens a ton, especially with women, but I think in all friendships, relationships, even marriages, nobody's telling each other the truth. Everybody's just sweeping shit under the rug, and it takes one person to break the cycle and say that doesn't work for me. Mm-hmm, hey, I love you and you have the best intentions, but when you do this, it feels this way. Yes, you don't have to come out and be like hey, here's my boundary, right. What you cannot do it is hey, what's what's happening? Is it working for me, is it working for you, right, right, something different. Like do you like this because I used to like this and I'm sorry for not telling you sooner, but like, this doesn't work for me. Or like I want to want this, but I don't.
Speaker 1:Those are all boundaries.
Speaker 2:It's literally just telling the truth. We have, we make it, so we we when we reduce boundaries to this. You know, there's like that cute formula online that is I need blank, you behave.
Speaker 2:Or I'm trying to think of what the I haven't looked at it in a long time when you do this, I feel that there's this exact, yeah, there's exact formula, and I think that's great for beginners. But also when people come to me they tell me, like this doesn't work, yeah, yeah, it's. It's not working because it's dependent on them changing their behavior, which is completely out of your control yeah, it's out of your sovereignty. And then we start to set boundaries as a way to manipulate people's behavior, instead of setting boundaries as a way to tell the truth with people of who we are, in our capacity and our values, and then allow them to decide what their relationship is going to be and what their choice is. When we do that, we empower them. We empower them with choice, we empower them with sovereignty and we say I want to change this dynamic, yeah, I want to change the system. Are you with me or not? And when they're not, yeah, there's usually some grief. Yeah, but the judgment and the shame and the spiraling and the overthinking. It gets quieter.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm because all of a sudden you're allowed to love them. I like who's quote is it? I know I heard it from brunet brown, but I think someone else said it. We'll have to look it up and put it in show notes. But boundaries are the distance that I can love you and still love myself. Yes, but the problem is when you're not setting boundaries with other people. If their intent Is to love you, they are constantly crossing your, crossing your boundaries and eventually you will resent them. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:You will hate them, you will not like them, you will be petty with them, you will be passive, aggressive, you will ghost them, because your body will start choosing the boundary for you in ways that are not your adult self. You'll start setting boundaries like a toddler sets boundaries. You'll start setting boundaries like a teen girl sets boundaries. Right, not mature, yeah, not owning. Not owning like this is within, this is within my control and this is not within my control. And I'm going to trust you. And here's the thing. Sorry, I'm going all over the place.
Speaker 1:No, you're good.
Speaker 2:Boundaries with someone who isn't healthy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have to remember what age of maturity of the person you're setting boundaries with right and you might have to set boundaries boundaries with them like you would set boundaries with a toddler. If you have an emotionally reactive mother-in-law or father-in-law, or your parent or sister or sister-in-law, whoever it is in your life, if they are explosive or if they are like outright manipulative or they're in an unhealthy, immature place in their lives, you can't set boundaries with them in the way that I set boundaries with you, right? They won't be able to have that conversation, and that's not a judgment, that's a hey, this is where they are. So sometimes, when you're setting boundaries, you have to be more clear and concise.
Speaker 1:Right, I was gonna say it's not an excuse to not set the boundary, or you?
Speaker 2:have to own. Like, for example, let's say they're calling you and they're trauma dumping on you and every time you answer, you like don't know what you're gonna get. Yeah, it'd be easy to be like, oh, I'm gonna set a boundary and I'm gonna call her and I'm gonna have her text to me, or I'm gonna have, I'm gonna tell her I'm not open to this conversation. Instead of that boundary, your boundary might be I don't answer the phone when she calls. Or oh, I don't answer the phone when she calls. I create that pause. That's the initial boundary, the pause If you don't know what to do. Create pause. When someone asks you a question and you don't know, stop instinctively saying yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's my issue. Yeah, pause, and that's so hard because it's reflexive and you're saying that's a boundary.
Speaker 2:Or yes and I. This is the first boundary I recommend everyone. Practice is a pause. Someone asks you something. Can I think about that for a minute? Yeah, can I think I'm gonna think about that for the weekend. Let's connect again monday, and then you're actually going to go ask yourself what the answer is.
Speaker 2:But here's the beauty even if you say yes, you can be like yes, actually, you know what, can I think about that for a minute? Because I really want to, but I need to think about if I have the capacity for that. I need to think about if that's, if it's the right timing or the right thing. But if you create that pause, you know, coming back to the phone example, you could say oh, she called me and you know what I have capacity. I have. I have capacity to energetically hold my boundaries, that if she starts trauma dumping, I'm not going to soak it all in and feel it myself. I'm going to be able to just hold space for her. Or you know what I'm feeling, like a sponge today. I can't do it. I'm going to send her a text instead. Tell her I'll call her, or just call her back later. You start having a relationship with them that you want to have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it starts with having that relationship with yourself and knowing where you are in your capacity and your cycle and all the things.
Speaker 2:Isn't that genuine love, though? Yes, so now, instead of fake loving you and pretending to show up for you but having this weird energetic energy yeah, and then like feeling weird towards you later I get to show up and actually be in relationship with you. I get to be present with you. I get to listen and be with who you are, because I'm no longer lying about who I am and what I need and what I feel and what my values are, and if we're in right relationship that consists of two whole people yeah.
Speaker 2:And part of us is that we have limits, we have boundaries, right, your boundaries already exist, right, it's just being able to feel them and make them clear. Yeah, don't make them. Make our relationship say hey, we're allowed to talk about this, we're allowed to talk about rupture and repair Out loud and create these new systems of health, because our culture, frankly, is obsessed with talking about what's wrong.
Speaker 1:Yes, we were Someone has to blame, we have to blame someone.
Speaker 2:We are feeding it to the bush right Like I'm saying this, especially with like inner child parenting of like let's blame our parents Well, that's great. Let's say it's their fault. Guess what? Whose responsibility is it now? Because you are a grown-ass adult, you are not a child anymore, and I'm not saying that in a demeaning, shame-filled way. But that message to myself, which my husband lovingly helped me hear, is that, like I can't keep going back to the same old system and blaming it.
Speaker 2:Part of healing for me was realizing I have choice now. I have choice now. They are not responsible for me emotionally. They are not responsible for my behavior. I am that Sometimes that's uncomfy because I have clients who they have surpassed their parents when it comes to emotional maturity.
Speaker 2:They have surpassed their parents when it comes to, you know, emotional regulation. They have language and tools that their parents can't even grasp. Luckily, like I have parents who can like have these kinds of conversations and I'm in a little bit different of a boat, but it's like it'd be so easy to blame our parents or blame our trauma, and those are real, those are real excuses and at some point that had me drowning in patterns that didn't work anymore. And what I loved about coaching and what I love about is specifically somatic is finding the part of me that is grounded, finding the part of me that isn't activated and can choose.
Speaker 2:Yes, the choice I feel like that is such a powerful part of boundaries that we're missing is what are you choosing? Yeah, how are you choosing to be into this relationship? Are you leaning in? Are you over functioning? Are you being in? You know this manipulative state? How are you receiving? Right? Because one of the you know, one of these boundaries we talk about is they have set this gift in front of you and maybe it's a beautiful gift, but maybe it's a gift of like shit. You don't want to. It's your choice if you want to pick it up. It's your choice if you want to take it. Energetic boundaries are so powerful of like you know what she can talk about that, but don't receive it. If your boundary doesn't want to be external, let it be internal.
Speaker 1:Let it be internal.
Speaker 2:Let it be. Oh, they said that I don't receive that. I disagree. Feel that, I love that Because it keeps it out. Yeah, it keeps it out and like I'm even like pushing with my hands I know they won't see me, but like pushing with your hands. When we can feel our bodies and when we can come back to choice, that's when we experience freedom through boundaries and that has been yes, that word.
Speaker 1:Freedom, that's it, that's the word right there Like I feel so free. I used to be so afraid to be in relationship specifically with women like friendships, right, and then I dealt with this in my marriage as well of just like that fear. But there's so much liberation when I know that, first of all, I don't need to write in my notebook and journal about my boundaries. I will know my boundaries in the moment if I'm connected to myself. I will know them in my moment. And I love the way that you describe them, because many women come to me and say I'm terrible with boundaries, but that's not always true. Like a lot of, when you say, hey, I'm sorry, I have to go to the bathroom. Bathroom, that's a boundary. That's you saying, tuning into your needs, right, would you agree?
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah, and I think women are underestimating how good they are with boundaries, because I think everyone thinks it's some perfect formula yes, and if not, it's gonna be individual, for example, with my kids. I'm very sarcastic when I said boundaries with my kids Like it's funny, like I'll set it, like I'll try to be funny about it, and then the next day I might be firm about it, the next day I might be soft about it. Your no is allowed to be like a no thanks or not for me today, bro, or hey, try that again, like that's a boundary. And then it might be like, hey, this behavior creates ex consequence. Right, it's allowed to grow and it's allowed to shrink. But I do wanna come back to something of like when I was first learning my boundaries, I had to get coached, unlike all of them.
Speaker 2:I needed someone else. I really did need someone else's system to help me learn my own, because I was so disconnected from myself, and so it did take journaling. It did take more time, but it's a skill, it's a muscle you're building and so the longer you do it, all of us, you're building this new pathway right Like even in neuroscience, they're showing right now that these habits, the way that we relate to people, your boundaries, it's just, it's a pattern and it's a habit. It's this well-worn thing that you have just done impulsively. Your body is doing it for you. It is your nervous system has learned.
Speaker 2:This is how I deal with conflict Move against it, I move away from it, or I shut down, or I like run away from it. Right For Fs the fight, flight, freeze, spawn. This is how our bodies deal with conflict, whether that was big trauma or little trauma, and we can make new pathways. And the beautiful part is the pause. Conflict comes at us. Something happens, whether they do a behavior or we notice something internalized, this like internal know or this external know. If we can create the pause, this pause of what am I choosing? What am I choosing? Do I want to move towards this person with this boundary? Do I wanna go have a conversation with her or do I need to back away for a minute? Do I need to come at this with a fight boundary? Because you know what, when it comes to abusive people, you're gonna have to have a fist with a boundary, like I don't mean to literal.
Speaker 2:Well, it could be a little bit.
Speaker 2:But, like people talk about emotional regulation, as if you're always going to feel peaceful and calm and soft, and I don't think that's true. I think our nervous systems are beautifully intelligent and they were created to say sometimes we need a big ass know with a fist, and sometimes we need a gentle know with a pat on the back, or a know as an invitation. A know as an invitation of like hey, I'd love to see you, best friend, I don't know how I'm gonna make that work. Or hey, I'd love to have dinner. I just need you to know I'm a hot mess and I'm not gonna be fun, friend Becca. Tonight I'm gonna be like really messy Becca, who's probably gonna fall apart a little bit. Do you have capacity for that? Yes, don't. If you don't, I need to just stay home and like shut down on the couch because I'm not going like. This is who I am, where I am, how I am.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, what would the world look like if we all talked like that and commune it is so beautiful when I have those friendships and, like now, that my husband have like me and my husband have like, practiced this and created this in our marriage. It's so beautiful.
Speaker 2:It's so like less dramatic when issues come up, because we've learned these new emotional maturity of like how to meet each other and our boundaries and the yes and the no and the maybe and the like, just being honest with each other. And when I started doing that I this was going back to your question a while ago. When I first started doing it he was the problem. I had just decided that, like he wasn't my new problem Before he was the problem. My trauma was the problem, but I was still in the shame and blame and so then he became the problem and then, when I didn't wanna make him the problem anymore, I made me the problem. Yes.
Speaker 2:And anytime I was doing that, I was always just trying to control. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So here's the thing control works until it doesn't. It doesn't create beautiful relationships. No, it works until it doesn't. And here is the thing the opposite of control is trust. Ooh. So am I using boundaries to create control, and you know, sometimes we might need that. But also am I using boundaries as a way to trust myself, as a way to trust him, as an input to even boundaries with yourself? You think of women trying to control their behavior. I see this very frequently women trying to control themselves and it doesn't work because they're not listening to their capacity and their ability. Right Personal responsibility, hand in hand with boundaries, is your ability to respond, and sometimes you don't have the ability to respond.
Speaker 1:Yeah, actually, can I add something to what you're saying? Just because, in my own experience and then I wanna tie this together of some tangible tools that people can start to work on within themselves. But one thing that I really struggle with is like I know some things off. I'm very connected to my body. Now I've done a lot of work where I can feel some things off, but it's exactly what we experienced. It's communicating that.
Speaker 1:So what I have found is sometimes even just saying, like I say this to my husband all the time. I'm not sure why, but something just doesn't feel right. When you just said like, he said it today at lunch today. He said we were talking about his work and I was trying to give him all this advice that I knew from, like you know, my own business journey, he's like babe, I got it, thanks.
Speaker 1:And something just felt so like shameful and triggering and usually I would keep it to myself and then just sort of like be kind of standoffish and this does feel like a boundary to me. It was just me me being like, hey, that the way that you said it to me didn't land very well. I'm not sure what boundary needs to be in place. I'm not sure what I'm even asking you to do, I'm just letting you know. And he was able to come back and go. I recognize that actually as soon as I said that, like I do really love your advice, and then he was able to actually clearly communicate his boundary, like I like when you give me advice here, when you give me advice here, it feels like you don't know all the details and I was like that makes sense and that's trust.
Speaker 2:Yes, it trusts, yeah, and that's the boundary right, an intimacy building, yeah. And I think can I offer context that could be really helpful for you. Okay, a lot of times with women and this is contextually built into us when we hear a no, we hear no to us, to self. Yes, we think when someone says no to us, there's something wrong with me, because we're looking at boundaries as do you approve of me and do you love me or do you not? And so when someone says yes to us, a lot of times we have learned that when someone says no to us, they are saying no to our self. Yeah, they are taking away permission from what we want.
Speaker 2:But here's the beautiful thing when you feel yourself, when you trust yourself, when you build that relationship, when confidence and wholeness in I am worthy, you no longer look to people to approve of you. You don't need their permission. You want it, you like it and there's nothing wrong with it. But one of our most innate human needs is other people. But what maturity does maturity and boundaries starts recognizing that wasn't a no to me. It was a no to this. So people can't see me, but I'm taking my hands on my chest and I'm putting it out in front of me A lot of times, when we're over empathetic, everything people put out there we bring in, and a powerful, powerful this is a bubble boundary is realizing that there no, doesn't have to come in, it gets to stay out here.
Speaker 2:Then I get to say what was that no about? Because this is conflict. Conflict is not a bad thing, but we learned as women that it's our job to fix the conflict by not meeting. It's our job to play Tetris, to fit ourselves into their no or yes. Even if you think of partnerships, of marriages, especially male, female, you think of what we were taught and we were taught what a man wants. You fit yourself into his, yes, you fit yourself into his no. Our bodies will hear their no and think Tetris, shame. What part of my body, what part of my needs, what part of my feelings or sensations wasn't allowed? I love what you did in that moment because you told him how you received that, but you also didn't make it his fault, right, if he wasn't allowed to tell you, because, frankly, there's a lot of conversations in our culture about how men are always the problem, and I don't believe it.
Speaker 1:I'm with you. I'm with you.
Speaker 2:I think it's bullshit, because women, they also have their part In any relationship, whether it's motherhood or marriage or whatever type of relationship or marriage you are in. Right, there are going to be dynamics and you are responsible for you. If you're in relationship, you also want to be partially responsible for them. Yeah, you want to take a little bit of ownership of I care about how I impact you. I want to protect your heart. Yes, I want to mature enough to witness that we're not against each other when conflict happens. Right, we're allowed to take that conflict and say this is what you need and this is what I need. Can we? Instead of making those things a fight, instead of that saying if you take up space, I can't, we say how do we both take up space in this?
Speaker 2:One of the practices that could save so many marriages or even friendships is telling other people hey, I need advice on this or hey, I don't want your advice. I don't want you to fix this. I want you to. I want me to cry and fall apart and pretend I don't know what to do or how to fix this and I want you to tell me I'm pretty and you love me. Yeah, I need to fix this, because I know how to fix this. I know what the problem is, but that's not what I want and need for me right now. Right, and you're allowed to say I can't do that today.
Speaker 1:Right. But oftentimes and I might have to have you back on the pod and cast just about marriages, because I do think you're absolutely right I think oftentimes we know exactly what, where we are actually feeling our boundary, we are feeling our yes and no, but we're not either communicating it verbally and saying like this is exactly what I need, or just saying I don't know what I need you know, or we're doing it weirdly energetically, where we're trying to control, or we're making them lose.
Speaker 2:Yes, I see this all the time. Women are communicating their boundaries through shame and blame cycles and it feels impossible to the other person because they don't know how to win. Right, they don't know how to win and if people don't think they can win, they won't try. Especially men, I will try, but even women, I mean I see women do this to themselves. They set these boundaries for themselves and then they keep losing and they either give up on boundaries altogether or they, like rule themselves with this iron-abusive fist and every time they fail they beat themselves up and they see I knew you were a piece of shit, but they, women, literally talk to themselves like this and there has to be a boundary. There has to be a boundary of I don't talk to myself that way, I don't treat myself this way, I don't treat this other person this way.
Speaker 1:I love that idea of the external but also the internal boundaries. I think that's beautiful.
Speaker 2:And witnessing what is the goal of the boundary. This is a beautiful place to take this of a tandoor bowl. When you witness that there's a boundary, what are you protecting? What are you protecting? What are you wanting If your boundary is with another person? Or let's use the example of business, because we haven't gone into boundaries of business at all. If you're looking at boundaries with your business, why does it matter? What are you protecting? And even you're going to have to skim into your desire, which is really hard for women. What do I want? What do I want to feel in my business when we set boundaries from that place? We're not controlling ourselves, we're leading ourselves.
Speaker 2:Yes, think of a empathic but boundary mother who says baby girl, I know you want to eat an entire box of donuts. How will you feel when you do that? What's that going to create? Because there's a difference between saying sure, no boundaries, just do whatever the hell you want. That's not protecting and loving my child. My child is not always going to like my boundaries. Human resistance is a beautiful thing and also it's a little, a lot of times, immature. So we have to find that part of ourselves that can hold in our hands. I know what you want is to feel good and to have fun, and eating a box of donuts won't actually accomplish that, or bringing it back to marriage. I know you want connection with your husband, so go get connection with your husband. You might be able to skip the boundary all together and just go up and be like I need a hug.
Speaker 2:I need some protection time. Yeah, I need attention, I need attention. Yeah, I don't want to sit, but like, hey, here's what I need.
Speaker 1:I need you to just tell me I'm pretty and it's going to be OK.
Speaker 2:I love that, but that feels cringey to us. It feels so cringey to us and yet we avoid conflict and it creates conflict and it creates more complex conflict. A lot of times all of these little tiny things become this big giant bowl of spaghetti that we can't untangle because everything's so mixed together. But when you start building a life where you start pulling threads of truth in your daily life and you stop avoiding small conflicts and you either heal the conflict within yourself because it's not always an us issue, sometimes it's a you issue A lot of the conflict in my early marriage was not a him issue, it was a my trauma issue. Me too. I had awful relationships before my husband that created emotional patterns in me where it didn't matter what he said or did. I had a story in my head about anything he said of like he could walk in the door and be like man, the kitchen's a mess and internally I would be shutting down of. He thinks I have a failure. I'm a failure.
Speaker 2:I'm a piece of shit. His even noticing the dirty kitchen would crumple me.
Speaker 1:That was how I felt about parenting, when someone would come to that parenting. Yes.
Speaker 2:Someone would make the tiniest thing and people in our immaturity we go and we're like I need to set a boundary with him. All he was doing was noticing the kitchen was dirty. In my maturity I could also look around and be like, well shit, where is the house cleaner? I mean, it was me, I was the house cleaner. But it was like that wasn't a personal attack, that's not what he was saying, that wasn't his intent and I kept thinking because I feel this way he has to cater himself to how I feel. Right no.
Speaker 2:He has to center himself and me and our marriage, and everything he says and does around my feelings. My feelings were created in trauma and I was allowing those traumatic feelings and systems and cycles to rule me when what I needed to feel and develop was my sovereign choosing.
Speaker 1:Which is why I love your question, because I think your question of what are you protecting is helpful to discern your boundary, but it's also helpful when you even talk about that example. Right there, he tapped on your shame right. His words specifically tapped on your own shame story. So when you say what are you protecting, it really allows you to go ooh, yeah, or what am I needing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, what am I needing? Because when he walks in the door and he says the kitchen is a mess, what I'm needing in that moment is, well, it'd be easy to externalize and see, I need him to validate how hard I've been working. But really, what needs to happen is I need to validate Right, right, I am enough, I'm doing enough, and this doesn't mean anything about me.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:This is no in my kitchen. This, no in my household. It's not a self issue, right? This isn't me. But also, this isn't even him, right? This isn't an us issue. This is a me thing that I have to own. How I'm feeling witness. I need a break. I need to ignore the dirty kitchen and stop trying to keep up and go read a book, because resentment is a function of envy. So if I'm not resentful about him, of like well, you should try. It's because he doesn't feel the need to over-identify himself with the house.
Speaker 2:He doesn't feel the need to over-identify himself with whether the kitchen is clean or not. My husband is so beautifully healthy, in this way of like, he doesn't feel the need to have me baby him. He wants me to affirm him and love on him and he's full of himself in a most beautiful way, and for so long I wanted him to cater to me because I was in so much immaturity and it was like the boundary was witnessing oh, this is my thing.
Speaker 1:Yes, this is your definition, he's poking it, he's poking it but the problem isn't him poking it.
Speaker 2:The problem is what he's poking. That's mine to heal, right, you can't do that. The boundary can be me inviting him and like hey, I'm working on this thing. It's not your fault, but I could use your help with it.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm noticing, I'm noticing. This comes up, can you?
Speaker 2:start verbally telling me this or reminding me who I am, because I'm having a hard time remembering.
Speaker 1:Yes, so good, so good, so good. Ok, yeah, again we could boundaries as a topic.
Speaker 2:We could speak out for hours.
Speaker 1:I'm glad that we went more into triggers yeah, because boundaries play such a key role in it, and so what I would love to leave my audience with is two things that you said that I think are very good tools they could walk away with now and start practicing the boundaries. And first of it is practice the pause. So if you feel an inkling to blame whether it blame someone else or shame yourself if you feel that inkling to get into that cycle, when you feel triggered.
Speaker 2:When you feel triggered. When you feel triggered.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, boom. You notice that trigger pause, practice the pause. I love that. And then asking yourself what am I protecting here? Is there a need that needs to come forward? Is there a desire that needs to come forward? Is there a boundary that needs to be stated? Is there an internal boundary? Like you gave us so much, rebecca, I really, really want a presence that you are so knowledgeable in this area and it's not as it's I love your word nuanced. It is not. It's every day. We're playing with boundaries every day. It is not always this big thing with somebody that's in your life. It is an every day thing and we get to practice it. And it begins with practicing learning what you're knowing, yeses, and you do that by everything that we talk about on this podcast. Every expert I've ever brought on has mentioned somatics. For this reason, get to know your body, get to know what it's communicating on a daily basis, and boundaries will become easier over time.
Speaker 2:But I think we, when it comes to boundaries I would love to wrap it up this way I feel like we're looking for a script, yes, and not with boundaries. We're looking for the right script in motherhood. We're looking for the script on relationships or business, or boundaries, and then we're applying that script to a diverse, nuanced human in relationship to another diverse human. There is complexity there and we don't balance and nourish complexity by ignoring it. Yeah, what makes complexity easier is naming it, yeah, standing it is. Being in relationship with part of me wants to say yes, I want to want this, I don't want this, but I kind of, in a weird pinky way, do Like finding yourself out, finding them out, realizing that you are a complex, nuanced person and you get to take up space.
Speaker 2:And trusting it you are a grown-ass adult. Yeah, yeah. Feel that in your body. Feel that in your body your capacity to choose, yeah, your capacity to choose who you are in relationship with other people. You get to create that. You get to say this is what I value and I'm going to base my behaviors. I'm going to base my boundaries on what I value and what I want to create and who I want to be, not base my boundaries on what's wrong with you or what's wrong with?
Speaker 2:you. We want to play the good-bad game. This is good, this is bad. In what context? Right, we both wanted to say yes to it, we both had the desire it was a good thing with a good person, and it was still a no.
Speaker 1:Right, right and trusting that.
Speaker 2:That's so much easier yeah, that's so much easier than the bullshit that would have been created if we would have played this game. Yeah. Of not holding boundaries?
Speaker 1:Yes Well thank you for being a living, breathing embodiment. I mean, I think this boundaries conversation is really going to shake things up for people because it's different. It's different than what you read in communication styles and all that good stuff and it's all important, but it starts with here. It starts with really becoming embodied, learning your cues, learning your needs from there. Once you're comfortable with that and that relationship has strengthened, then we can move towards explaining our boundaries and that sort of thing. So thank you, thank you, thank you. I would love you to just end with sharing with my community how they could get into your community and your offerings and what you have going on.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. While I'm on Instagram, that's probably the easiest place to find me. I also have some boundary freebies, so they can find that on my email list or even just DM me and say hey, I was in your bound, I heard your Boundaries podcast and I love your freebie on boundaries. I'll also be launching my own podcast Whenever this comes out. I'll probably have one, so I'll probably do a whole mini series on boundaries once I get the podcast up and running. But yeah, probably the best way is Instagram, and I love when people reach out and actually connect. I get to hear their big aha or their big takeaway or oh my gosh, thank you for this, or I don't get this point. I love genuine connection with people and I'd love to send them that freebie if they're interested in it.
Speaker 1:So amazing, so I will put all of her information in the show notes. You guys, go and connect with her. She's a wealth of knowledge and you will not have to worry about whether you're going to get an honest yes or no from her. So go and find her, rebecca, thank you so much for your time Awesome, thank you. That wraps up this episode today. I hope you learned something new and or are able to take away a fresh perspective to apply to the moments in your life. Remember to rate the podcast, share it with someone you love or leave a review. I'm always grateful for your time and I'm always rooting for you to wake up and thrive. I'll see you guys next week.