In today’s episode I am pulling back the curtain and sharing my first ever interview with a past client! I have Kelsey Buckholtz with me today, and if you have ever wondering how coaching can help, this is the episode for you. Kelsey has experienced both 1:1 and group coaching. Kelsey’s story is also unique in that she came to me already knowing the work. She is a published author who shares her journey and the many tools she has learned along the way. She knew these tools, and yet found herself in a season where she needed support to embody them. After having her daughter, she found herself having to relearn all that she knew. We talk about how important it is to have a coach to hold a mirror up to our blindspots. I loved the insights, wisdom, and vulnerability she shares.
We uncover the delicate art of setting boundaries and the significance of embracing all of our emotions — the rough, the raw, and the radiant — especially in the presence of our little ones. Kelsey and I swap stories and strategies for managing this balancing act, offering pearls of wisdom on how these challenges can catalyze profound self-growth and lead to the formation of new boundaries as our families grow and our roles evolve.
Tune in and if you are someone who struggles specifically with perfectionism and people pleasing, check out Kelsey’s book here. Her book Strong, Calm, and Confident You is not only jam packed with wisdom, but it offers tangible practices to help implement this newfound knowledge.
Kelsey is a published author and coach who helps women in the workplace find balance and reclaim their joy. In her first book, Strong, Calm, Confident You, Kelsey shares her journey with anxiety that manifested as people pleasing and perfectionism. Kelsey has a passion for helping women and moms stop the cycle of pleasing, perfecting, and performing so they can embrace their confident and best selves.
Check out Kelsey here:
Get a copy of her book here.
.
Let's Connect.
Free guide: 5 ways to find Calm: Get the guide here
Come find me on Instagram: @findherwildcoaching
Check out my website and my offerings here
In today’s episode I am pulling back the curtain and sharing my first ever interview with a past client! I have Kelsey Buckholtz with me today, and if you have ever wondering how coaching can help, this is the episode for you. Kelsey has experienced both 1:1 and group coaching. Kelsey’s story is also unique in that she came to me already knowing the work. She is a published author who shares her journey and the many tools she has learned along the way. She knew these tools, and yet found herself in a season where she needed support to embody them. After having her daughter, she found herself having to relearn all that she knew. We talk about how important it is to have a coach to hold a mirror up to our blindspots. I loved the insights, wisdom, and vulnerability she shares.
We uncover the delicate art of setting boundaries and the significance of embracing all of our emotions — the rough, the raw, and the radiant — especially in the presence of our little ones. Kelsey and I swap stories and strategies for managing this balancing act, offering pearls of wisdom on how these challenges can catalyze profound self-growth and lead to the formation of new boundaries as our families grow and our roles evolve.
Tune in and if you are someone who struggles specifically with perfectionism and people pleasing, check out Kelsey’s book here. Her book Strong, Calm, and Confident You is not only jam packed with wisdom, but it offers tangible practices to help implement this newfound knowledge.
Kelsey is a published author and coach who helps women in the workplace find balance and reclaim their joy. In her first book, Strong, Calm, Confident You, Kelsey shares her journey with anxiety that manifested as people pleasing and perfectionism. Kelsey has a passion for helping women and moms stop the cycle of pleasing, perfecting, and performing so they can embrace their confident and best selves.
Check out Kelsey here:
Get a copy of her book here.
.
Let's Connect.
Free guide: 5 ways to find Calm: Get the guide here
Come find me on Instagram: @findherwildcoaching
Check out my website and my offerings here
Hi, my name is Bridget and this is my podcast, wake Up and Thrive. My intention for this space is to help women around the world live more awake, aligned and truly alive. I believe wholeheartedly that we are designed to live, feel and experience the full range that life has to offer, and in doing so, we can live fully turned on in all areas. My story began with sobriety and has since been an initiation into rediscovering parts of myself that I forgot about or had abandoned. Learning to reclaim all of who I am has been the greatest gift of living awake, and together we will go on a journey of helping you to do the same. You can expect to learn practical tools to help you connect deeper to yourself, your purpose and those in your life. All you need is an open heart and an open mind. So if you're ready, it's time. It's time to wake up and thrive. Good morning and welcome back to Wake Up and Thrive.
Speaker 1:I am going to do something today I've never done before. I'm actually bringing a past client on to share her experience inside of my programs and how coaching shifted things for her relationship with herself, her purpose and others. So I have the beautiful Kelsey Buchholz here with me. Kelsey is an author, a speaker, coach, mom of a beautiful little girl. She is a client turned friend and mentee, and I just adore everything about her. So Kelsey has experience in both doing one-to-one coaching with me. She was in my second round of my signature program called Fully Alive, which is coming back in the spring, and then most recently, she went through my marriage program called Let Love In. So we have lots to talk about and she's a great perspective. Yeah, so, kelsey, welcome. Thank you, what a lovely intro. I try to be a little bit personal and I say this all the time, but I'll let you know this I don't bring anyone on that I don't have a relationship with, so this feels really, really special to have you here. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so okay. So, kelsey Kelsey from my perspective, from working with you, and then Kelsey and I actually connected on Instagram years before I would say like two years before you had your daughter and even before we even started working together. But Kelsey has an incredible story, in my opinion, of how healing is not linear and also how life always gives you exactly what you need, not necessarily as a reminder that you're doing something wrong, but, as an individual, is an invitation right to shed another layer and to go deeper into this work. So my first question, kelsey, is I would love you to. I gave you my introduction, but why don't you introduce yourself from my audience and share who you are? So what really stands out, what really defines who you are, and then how you got to where you are today. Sure, that's a big question. That's a big question.
Speaker 2:So my journey kind of begins in two places, but let me start with 2020, when, you know, a lot of people's lives changed due to the pandemic. I had been working in a corporate communications job for most of my career and at that time we were starting to work from home and I had this pull on my heart is what I call it this just like uncomfortable feeling like I was supposed to be doing something and I thought I wanted to quit my job. I thought I was going to change industries. So I hired a career coach for the first time ever and in talking to her in a couple of sessions, I realized that the pull I was having was to write a book, and that had always been a dream of mine. And now was the time. Because I had extra time being able to work from home. I had a lot of flexibility. So, fast forward, a year later, I published my very first book called Strong, calm, confident you. It's my only book, but I hope to write more, and it's all about my journey with anxiety. So that's where my other journey starts.
Speaker 2:I think I likely grew up with anxiety.
Speaker 2:There were signs early on, but no one ever diagnosed me with it until I was in my 20s and through therapy and a lot of self-help books and coaches like yourself, bridget I have learned a ton about how to manage anxiety that, for me, has always been rooted in perfectionism and just being really hard on myself, having these really intense expectations for myself, but also people pleasing and trying to meet expectations of other people as well as perceived expectations from society, which is a big one that we can talk about.
Speaker 2:So I learned a ton and I wanted to help other women who were struggling with similar things and that's why I wrote my book and, as Bridget alluded to, I had a little girl in 2022, and I'm so grateful for everything that I learned and all the therapy and coaching I did pre-baby, because I can't imagine where I would be if I hadn't done that work. But I'm finding myself falling back into some of these patterns again that I thought I had kind of squashed, and having to relearn the tools that I already know in some cases and some new ones in other cases, and so I came back to coaching. I had known Bridget for a while and signed up for some programs with her, and I've really learned a ton that I'm hoping we'll get to talk through today a little bit more.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. I never heard the story of when you read your book or wrote your book, so that's really cool and special for me. I'm going to link her book in the bottom show notes. A few things I'll say specifically about this book that I love.
Speaker 1:Well, first of all, when you asked me to coach, of course I was thrilled and excited, and two things stood out. First of all, I was so in awe of you being such a young mom, right with a toddler at the time, doing this work, because most of the moms, including myself, I, didn't get into this work until my youngest son, my fourth son, was like three or four, so that took so much courage. I was so inspired by that because I think often as moms, as you know, we just sort of accept the narrative that motherhood's hard and you just have to get through the season. And for Kelsey, from the get go, that was not enough. That was not enough for her. So even even having her come into my marriage group like that has been my overwhelming opinion of you has been like, so inspired. I wish to God I had that drive when my, when my daughter or my kids were that young. So that's the first part, yeah. And then I think the second part is reading your book. Your book is not just, it's not just tools, it actually is embodiment, it is practices. And so I remember thinking what if the teacher, she knows all of this stuff like Val? I remember reading your value exercise and be like this is the same exact exercise I take my client or similar. You know what am I going to do? But as we started coaching, it was so clear to me and you described it beautifully that this was not again not a reminder that you were doing something wrong or you're going backwards, right.
Speaker 1:I always describe growth as three phases. The first phase is we're just living in default and we're doing stuff and we're unaware. The second phase is that messy middle where you you do start to have more awareness but you kind of go back right. And then the third phase is like complete enlightenment. Most of us are in that second phase and that's where I think you found yourself and you came to me feeling like I'm doing something wrong. But why don't you share a little bit first with our one-to-one coaching? Like what, what were some of some, what? Yeah, what were some of the biggest insights you got when we did one-to-one?
Speaker 2:Trying to think back, Bridget.
Speaker 1:I know it was a long time ago.
Speaker 2:It was a long time ago and I was fairly newly postpartum. I'm trying to remember when we started. I was definitely back to work, so she was at least six months, but I feel like I was still within that year, that first year where so much of it is a blur.
Speaker 3:But I just you want me to remind you, yeah, if you have some.
Speaker 1:Well, there was, there was two things, and again I want you to share what's alive for you but I know it was it was mom. Guilt was a big part. And then what stood out was our Wednesday nights that we created for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, do you want me to?
Speaker 1:We'll share what's on your heart. This is me like not being a good coach and feeding you information.
Speaker 2:No, I need you to, because I can't. I can't remember what I learned in each session, Like to me it's just been like a cocoon of support from Bridget. Yeah, Um, okay, that's helpful. Yes, I remember that. So going back to work was a huge struggle for me with Sophie and in fact I remember feeling like I didn't know if I even wanted to go back to work. Now I kind of laugh at that because I'm just I need it. I need something for myself. I'm a creative person, my work is a lot of writing and I need that and I'm good at it.
Speaker 2:And it took like actually getting there to help me remember that. And once I got there, I remembered that I was good at my job. But I found myself like trying to juggle these two people, that I was like the corporate me and the mom Me the mommy, Um and it was just really, really hard to balance. And you know that, like you know that when you have a kid and I work in corporate and I know other moms and they tell me how hard it is, but you don't really know until you're doing it. And I was like I know, I know that this is supposed to be hard, but is it supposed to be this hard? Like I get two hours with her a night. Is this really how it's supposed to be?
Speaker 2:And these are the roughest days, or the roughest times of the day, like her witching hour. It was just miserable and it just felt like I wasn't being as present as I wanted to be with my daughter in the time that I had, and grappling with the fact that she was in daycare more than she was at home, with me going back to work. And so I came to Bridget with some of that guilt and I'm talking about you in third person, Like you're not here I came to you. I remember coming to you with that guilt of wanting to spend that time at work because I was good at it and wanting to do things that really fueled me outside of being a mom, which also brought me a ton of joy, and the guilt of having something for myself. I think was really really hard for me and not something that I grew up seeing from other women in my life.
Speaker 2:I feel like prior generations really did not prioritize themselves as generalization and we're really starting to see that now, that shift for millennials, gen Z, etc. Like really pushing self care and really learning how to take care of themselves, and it's something that I really want to instill in Sophie as she grows up, whether she becomes a mom or not. Taking care of yourself is so, so important and I knew that and I just needed to know and be reminded of how to put that into action as my priorities and my values were changing as a new mom.
Speaker 1:I love that because I do think most moms that haven't written a book, that haven't been doing as much self growth as you had been doing, come into motherhood and then it's just about, like you just said, it's just about shedding those layers, shedding those stories, what was modeled, the pressure, and getting back into the groove and again, just to highlight your journey. You knew this like so concretely, you were sharing this and teaching it, and then Sophie just invited you into this other layer of it, which was really, really beautiful to watch, and I'm reminded of one of the first things that I taught you was what presence was. Do you remember that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you want to share that Because I think your definition of presence is similar to many clients at the time. At the time, the definition, I'll share what you had shared with me. And then maybe from your perspective, a lot of times it was like that witching hour. Like I only have two hours with Sophie, I want to be present with her. And when I asked what does that mean to you, it was I want to enjoy this time with her, like I want her to be happy, I don't want her to be a pissed off baby, right, and we really got to pull back those layers. So I would love to hear from your perspective how that shifted.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I can remember talking to you about that and being like well, what does that mean then? If it's not, I remember talking about being present. Isn't always being happy. That means being present in whatever emotion is coming up and also accepting it.
Speaker 2:And I've learned over time that the tantrums and stuff are, you know, it's normal, it's developmentally appropriate, all of that, and they can be really hard on me, but what I realized is that it's almost a secondary emotion for me. That is like the main problem. So it's like I'm frustrated by the tantruming and then it's witching hour, but then I'm guilting myself about feeling frustrated, which just sends you into a spiral. So just accepting that, like, yeah, it's frustrating when your toddler throws a tantrum this morning.
Speaker 2:She threw a tantrum because I wouldn't wear me, I wouldn't wear a green coat. She picked out like you just have to. You know I could give in and wear the green coat, but I'm trying to teach her my body is mine, your body is yours. So just, you know, you kind of have to learn to laugh at them a little bit, not laugh at the kids, but like laugh at these ridiculous frustrations and be okay with it, like it's normal to feel this way. So accepting whatever is coming up is really what being present says about, and I think your definition is something along the lines of like being in your body.
Speaker 1:Yeah, letting your body be where your mind is. Yeah, right, instead of right, because I know for you, guilt was so much about what you're the time you're not with Sophie, or it's like the time, or it's like what. All what all needs to get done in the house, like I only have two hours of a window, I want to spend time with my daughter, but I've got to make dinner, I got to prep, I got to do all that stuff, and so being present is can your body be where your mind is, even if she's flipping her lid right, can you be there? So, yeah, so that even just shifting that, that perspective, I think I mean it's been helpful for me. And again, I didn't have a toddler when I learned this, but I also love that, like in your book, you talk about boundaries specifically and toddlers are the worst at following boundaries. Do you want to share a little bit of that experience, because I know a lot of my listeners could listen or could can relate to that for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so in my book my anxiety really manifested itself in a lot of work, stress, and that was kind of the impetus for being diagnosed with anxiety, put on medication and going through this kind of self-help journey. That ultimately became my book and through that a big part of my healing journey has been setting boundaries. And.
Speaker 2:I've done, if I do say so, myself, a really freaking good job of putting boundaries in place of work. But since having a baby, I am now needing to create new boundaries with my daughter, with my family, for myself even, that are different than the work ones. So, again, I'm glad I have that foundation of work boundaries, but it's it's. It's expanding that work into my family. Yeah, but some of the things that I've put in place for work are that I try not to take lunch meetings, so 12 to one. I usually have open for me to get something to eat, because that's taking care of yourself.
Speaker 2:And if I'm working from home, I like to get out for a walk or maybe, you know, listen to a podcast or read a book, anything like that. And if I'm at work, I like to meet up with colleagues and friends and just chit, chat no work talk. And what I talk about in my book is how to set those boundaries and then how to communicate them, because an issue that I had in the beginning was that I would set a boundary and then get pissed off when somebody didn't respect my boundary. But like they don't know your boundary, you're not wearing it on your forehead and just because you protect your lunch hour doesn't mean everybody does. Or just because you don't work at midnight doesn't mean everybody logs off at night.
Speaker 2:Some people like working at night. That may be their best time, but it wasn't for me. And there was this scenario that I talk about in my book, where an older gentleman that I worked with texted me at like eight or nine o'clock at night to ask me a question about a meeting that was like a week away. Like can you present in this meeting next Monday? And I lost it. Like I was like, oh my God, I can't believe you, but text me this late. This is so ridiculous it's not even urgent. Then I was like, wait, I have two choices. Like I can either sacrifice the boundary and respond to him, or uphold the boundary.
Speaker 2:So I didn't respond to him because it was not urgent and the next morning I ended up. I decided to send him an email it was a boundary and I said hey, I saw your text last night. I'm trying really hard not to respond to messages after hours, but I'm happy to present in the meeting. Let me know if you want to talk about it. And I was so surprised by his response. He was actually like oh, I, you know what I need to get better at that too. Yay, yeah. So the more that you reinforce your boundaries and like state them.
Speaker 2:You give other people the permission to do the same. So you know, I work for a big corporation where a lot of people do overwork and so I feel like I'm helping to set that tone for people that it's okay to do that, and so I tell everybody who's willing to listen, like protect your lunch hour, leave on time. I love that. My direct reports, like if you're sending me an email late at night, it better be on fire. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I love that you schedule it. Yeah, I love that you actually block your schedule and I mean you're literally self scheduling. Self care is what you're doing, which is a beautiful. I know your book talks a lot about a self care menu and so I love, I love that idea of scheduling it in now. Talk briefly, and then I want to. I want to ask you a little bit more to differentiate coaching for listeners, but I am curious hearing you talk about boundaries. How do you instill boundaries for someone who literally can't comprehend them, like Sophie?
Speaker 2:It's a great question. If you find out the answer, please let me know. I honestly don't know if I have an answer for that. I'm still trying to figure it out. I think you know there are certain things that are like a hard and fast boundary, like safety. Yeah, like I said, you know, like running in the parking lot, hard boundary, right, we're not going to do that, and so sometimes you have to do the hard thing to uphold that boundary, which is, you know, I try to have her hold my hand, for example coming out of daycare, and she always like let's go on my hand and takes off and if she does, I'm going to grab her and I'm going to throw over my shoulder and we're going to go to the car that way, whether she's kicking and screaming or whatever, yep, safety, hard boundary.
Speaker 2:And another one that I'm learning is like my body, your body.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 2:She's fighting me a lot on my body, I'm realizing she's wanting to brush my hair, she's wanting to pick out my outfit, like all these things, and it would be easy enough to just wear the green coat again. But I'm just trying to instill in her like that's my choice. So I got out my black coat this morning that I wanted to wear because it was really cold too cold for the green coat, I might add and I said you can pick which coat you wear. Do you want to wear this one or this one? Mommy's going to wear this one. And she literally threw herself on the floor, but then she got over it. She did, and so it's. And maybe that's a good lesson for boundaries in general is that other people don't have to be happy with your boundary.
Speaker 1:Amen. Say that one more time.
Speaker 2:Other people don't have to be happy with your boundary.
Speaker 1:They do not have to be in a half of the time, and I love both examples hearing you communicate a boundary to people with your boundaries Exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's yours, it's your boundary and it's yours to uphold and we're going to I'm going to have a few. I'm going to have actually an interview specifically related to embodied boundaries, which is going to be a really cool conversation to dive into. But I loved your example of communicating it to an adult and then an infant, right, somebody who really doesn't understand it, and in both places it's you taking responsibility. Also, I'm also hearing it's usually not as bad as you, as it is in our head, right, when we share that boundary, whether it's to the toddler or or an adult. So, yeah, I hear you talk a lot about that. We talked about, we coached a lot around that, but you are very versed in boundaries and I think Sophie was just another layer to have you practice. Right, it was just more practice for you. I'm trying to think also of our time together, because I feel like we've we've worked together for a while.
Speaker 2:I want to say I think that the really cool thing about coaching you talk about like that I already had a lot of these tools. That's really the beauty of coaching is. It's not really. I mean, you taught me a lot of tools, don't get me wrong, but I feel like the. The main benefit for me is just a is a mirror, Somebody to ask you questions, to go internally and figure out, like the why behind what you're feeling and to work towards solutions, like you're doing all the work yourself. Yeah.
Speaker 2:A coach just knows how to ask you the right questions, to pull out those responses and to motivate you, and then holds you accountable. It's somebody that you have to check in with. Yeah, you're paying for a group of sessions. If you're in a group program, there are other women going through it at the same time as you who are accountable, and you have this like support network and somebody to check in with. Yeah, and I know you use Voxer as well in between sessions, which is so nice. Like you know, we would talk through things in sessions of like what happened over the past week, but then I could also pop into Voxer and send you a voice note of being like oh my God, sophie just had a major tantrum and I'm spiraling and I'm so upset and you know whatever it was at the time, and you would give me like a grounding technique to do. Or you would say like Kelsey, are you being a bit of a perfectionist here? Yeah.
Speaker 2:And just like repeating my words back to me in a way that we don't, you can't really do yourself. You have to have that back and forth to find those patterns.
Speaker 1:Totally, and I think the word for it is like we all have blind spots, like I will never not have a coach right. Currently I'm not working one to one, but I'm involved in groups. I have coach mentors that I'm constantly touching base with because I know even Kelsey now and I'm going to have her share this at the end but she's stepping into the coaching space because of her wisdom, because of her experience with both the corporate world and entering and embodying these tools as a mom right With young kids, like such good work, such needed work. But even as she's stepping into this, so I'm mentoring right and we're going back and forth. And there was quite a few times yeah, I remember, even leading up to your workshop, where you were like this is happening, and I can't remember specifically what it was, but it was just a blind spot. It was a blind spot and it was me saying so. This is what I'm hearing you say. And the presentation do you remember the presentation?
Speaker 2:Yes, what was that about? I can't remember. I sent you a message and I was like I'm freaking out about this presentation. I'm trying to update it and I'm just not sure that it's like the stories aligned with how I wrote up the description and blah, blah, blah, blah blah and you were like Kelsey, put the presentation down.
Speaker 1:And what was the irony? What was the presentation about?
Speaker 2:Perfectionism and people pleasing. I was worried that people would come in and think like it was like a bait and switch which it wasn't. You know, it was beautiful. It was a different way of. You know, I've done this workshop in a couple of different avenues and it was just a different way of branding it for this audience. But like the lessons were the same, yeah. You were showing up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you were showing up in people pleasing and perfectionism and completely blind to it. And we all are. We, all of us are, even if you are sitting in the coach seat or the client seat like we all have blind spots. It's why I ask my clients for feedback constantly. Right, and all of the work you're doing learning about boundaries, learning to accept what's alive inside of you Like this all allows you to receive that feedback and receive those blind spots from a coach. So I do remember the irony of that of you leading your workshop on perfectionism and then sort of getting stuck in it, and it was. I mean, I was smiling but I also was like, oh my gosh, this is everyone Like. This is why I believe everyone needs a coach in their back pocket.
Speaker 1:And my next question for you is you sort of alluded to one difference because you've done therapy correct, okay. So I would love to hear from your perspective like some of the differences. One difference you highlighted was that in-between support, which I think is huge about coaching, because we're not quote unquote regulated or covered by insurance. I get to make the rules and I have my own boundaries right With Inboxer and when I can get back. But, as you know, like I'm typically, it's like real time coaching because it's such an easy avenue for me to touch base with you. But that's one of my favorite parts about coaching is like I get to be human I don't have to show up as a professional perfection Like I get to be human as well and share my experiences and all that. But from your perspective, what are some of the differences you've experienced?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I've been in therapy for many years, probably since like 2019, five years or so, and coaching shortly thereafter because I, just while I had learned a lot, I felt like I needed more and I would say the main differences that I see is that therapy at least the kind of therapy that I've had which is like cognitive behavioral therapy, talk therapy. You know you show up to your session and it's like how's your week been? And you just kind of talk through the things that have gone wrong and they usually they validate your feelings, talk through maybe why that, why you might be having that feeling, you might reframe it, but you don't really get tools. Like you don't learn how to get into your body, which is something that, Bridget, you talk a lot about. You don't learn you know communication techniques and things like that that you've taught in your classes. They don't.
Speaker 2:This is not as tangible. It feels like it's just it's venting to a friend, but they do provide that mirror that we were talking about. Like that was a big benefit of therapy to me early on was they were the ones that said, like I think you might have a little bit of perfectionism in people pleasing, and that's what's causing your anxiety, like connecting the dots to all these things I was complaining about session over session, realizing like you have these really high expectations on yourself and these perceived expectations from other people, and that was a big aha moment for me. But once you kind of know that, I felt like it was super helpful to have a coach, first a career coach and then working with you, bridget, to help motivate me to achieve goals.
Speaker 2:So I feel like this is a long-winded answer to say. I feel like coaching is more goal oriented. Like you come in and like what's your goal, what's the barrier to you getting that goal, Brainstorming some solutions and then holding you accountable to achieve that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I will say my style of coaching is very different than career Cause I would say most of our goals were internal goals. Would you agree? I like to call them more soul, soul line. What did my mentor say? There's like goals and then there's how am I gonna say this? You can have intentions on the goal line. That's what it is intentions on the goal line or in the soul line.
Speaker 1:And for us, we worked a lot with the soul line, Like your priorities, carving out time for your creativity to really like blossom. That was back to that Wednesday nights that we talked about, and that being like your creative day, and so I love that. And I agree with you Coaching is very focused on the future. We might I always say we might visit the past, but we're not gonna stay there, and this is not to say and, Kelsey, you and I have talked about this therapy is incredible, it's helpful, it's absolutely one of the places to start. Where I seem to connect with the clients is like they know the tools but they're not feeling the shift. And when you're not feeling the shift, it almost always is just that Like we're just so connected, disconnected from our bodies, and so learning to really slow down and be fully present. But yeah, that's a great example, Was there? And then, in between, you also talked about the packaging. How was that like? How was that presented for you?
Speaker 2:Yes. So therapy is, you know, week by week. You're paying per session. It is reimbursable through insurance, depending on your insurance coverage and coaching. Usually you're purchasing a package and I learned more about this and the reason why, as I've been talking to Bridget and I keep doing that, talking to like you're not here I've been learning more about why we do packaging and talking to you as I'm pursuing my own coaching career. Realize. So I realized that the reason we sell in packages is so that it's another way of holding people accountable. You're purchasing six sessions, eight sessions, whatever it may be, because that's how long it's gonna take to achieve a goal or to set you up for success, to really dig in deep to the work. You're not gonna get what you need out of one or two sessions. So it makes sure that you're committing to yourself and investing in yourself over a certain period of time, versus therapy you can start and stop whenever you want and they're not gonna check up on you.
Speaker 1:No, and I've done that. I mean I'm guilty of that. I don't know if you've done that, but I've totally-.
Speaker 2:You're supposed to be a therapist.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, or it's like-.
Speaker 2:Hey, where are you? What's?
Speaker 1:going on Exactly, or it's like the week before my period and I just quit, and then they're just like, okay, new client. And so it's not that they don't care, it's just that they're bound by a little bit more rules. And so if you are looking for that extra TLC and that really human connection, I find coaching a lot more impactful. I think the other thing and I'm thinking of your clients, all of your clients that you're gonna be serving when you go and sit down in a therapist's office, you're not always getting someone that has walked your path. When you sink out a corporate coaching mom who is trying to create balance, you're working with someone who has walked the walk, which is so powerful. It is so powerful because you're not sitting across from someone that's a little higher than you or hasn't been in your shoes. So would you agree with that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's an excellent point. I think the thing about therapy is they're trained not to share any of that which can be valuable in some settings. But, like you said, having somebody who has had that experience, then you have that personal connection with and has walked that path is so valuable so I can literally share like. This is what's worked for me, without making it about myself, but sharing my experience is really helpful and validating. Just here you're not alone. And to know you're not alone on your journey either.
Speaker 1:Exactly, which just removes so much of that shame that you were talking about. That ends up spiraling. You, yeah, I'm excited for you to jump into the space. I already know you're gonna be an amazing coach and you already are coaching. That's the thing is. Like you don't really like step into the space, you're invited into it Like you didn't ask for this. It really did you coach in your corporate career. Now, like you've shared that with me, you just it's who you are and it's who I am and it's just it's something that's hard to turn off. Now tell me, or tell my listeners, what was helpful to you. We did one-to-one coaching and then you joined a group, so we don't need to go into the nitty gritty of that group but what did you find helpful being in a group?
Speaker 2:I think, just being surrounded by other women who could help to hold you accountable but also share their experiences. So the vulnerability, especially in fully alive of sharing or sorry, not in fully alive let love in, of sharing about our marriages, about our relationships, of saying, like me too. I think there was a group boxer for that program and it was so powerful, like that chat was blowing up I could hardly keep up with it, but it was really powerful to be able to share what we were going through and just have a couple of people like your message as like a yeah, me too, sister, or share a similar story. And it was just. There were two benefits to it. One was just validating each other. Yeah, like, oh you two, me too, yep, same. Then you could also coach in that space on specific issues. So you could coach me in that group setting and other people would benefit from it so they may have a similar scenario or it may be something that they can prevent from happening in the future. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So it was really powerful to see other people's journeys, yeah, and to have that level of vulnerability and connection, yeah, I think was really, really powerful, especially in a topic like marriage, where I feel like we don't really talk about it. We don't talk about our marriage problems A lot of times, not even with our very best friends.
Speaker 1:No, we're not talking about our sex life. We're not talking about how much of a raging biatch we are behind closed doors, right.
Speaker 2:Like we're not Raging biatch Tommy.
Speaker 1:But we're not sharing that right. I mean, that was my exact experience, the first, actually. When I got into sobriety, I joined a coach program, a group coaching program. That was how I got into this work and it was in a group setting and I was like how am I even going to get work if they're not looking at me but I can't tell, or if they're not diving into my specific needs? But I can't tell you how many times a woman would come on and get coached and I'd be like, oh, like she's literally telling my story. I just don't have the tools or the courage right now to share it. So to hear her yes, exactly what you said it was like, yes, validating, and a me too, but it also like I learned from them. It was like getting 100 coaching sessions in one. Yeah, right, and I want to move to, unless you want to share anything else about group coaching specifically.
Speaker 2:Just that's like planting a seed that I never thought about of like why I should do a group program. Yeah, I'm in this. I'm in a mom group that has been so beneficial to me of women that I met through the hospital where I gave birth and it was like a breastfeeding support class and we all became really close. We have a group chat now and what I was describing in Let Love In is exactly what we have in our group chat. It's just. It's the most incredible validating supportive space. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like we just started a thread because now we all have toddlers, they're all the same age. We just started a thread of like today's tantrum and it's just so validating to see somebody struggling with the same kind of things of like the silly tantrums, and so we just we laugh at each other's tantrums. Yes. It's so comforting.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so now I have this seed of an idea to create that kind of space for other women.
Speaker 1:Yes, especially those working moms Like that. That is not my story. I never worked full time, so I don't have that that part of my journey to really implement. And I, yes, yes, yes, kelsey, do it now. And also, you know, I think the other thing is you say validating, and that's what it is. When you're sitting around with your mom friends, it's venting Right, and there is such a big difference because what I will say is having someone to facilitate it. You're never called out, but you are called forward a lot. And I remember, specifically in our group, specifically with Let Love In, what was it? It was maybe one woman just saying, like, is anyone else struggling with slowing down? Like that was one of the first things we really practiced for softening, and I remember her putting that in the chat and then that was when the chat blew up. Everyone was like, oh my gosh, I'm not. Yes, yes, what's up?
Speaker 2:And it was just like yes, One person opened up to be, vulnerable. Yeah, vulnerability breeds more vulnerability.
Speaker 1:Heck. Yes, so good, and yeah, I'm a big believer. That's one of the reasons I'm moving more towards group programs. I still will take an occasional one-to-one client, but I want to talk about Let Love In, because this is the program that I created, sort of on a whim, because I had dove into my own journey of learning feminine energy. Everything I had learned about getting into the body it tied into this, but it also was the language I needed.
Speaker 1:For years I was saying this to my husband like this is what I want. I want you to get off your phone, I want you to be present, I want you to listen to me, I want you to stop fixing and just hold space. I just didn't have the language for it. I kept saying I want you to be more manly, which is the most emasculating way to call someone into masculine. But that was what I knew, right, that was where I was at that time. And then I found feminine energy and polarity and it shifted so much, not just in my marriage, but that was the relationship that reflected back to me the work I was doing the most Like. I actually was feeling the love for the first time and I've shared this before, but I'll share it with you.
Speaker 1:I remember the impetus before starting that program was me going on a retreat with Paul marriage retreat and telling him I know that you love me, I absolutely no doubt that you love me. I know that I love you. I don't feel it. I don't feel turned on, I don't feel the connection. I don't know what it is, and I still was looking for him to change. And so that was when I entered this work and when I put the feelers out there for this first round, like so many women. It was absolutely incredible and I'm now about to run my third round. But I would love to hear for you, as somebody with a young child who oftentimes the marriage gets put on the back burner, like share, a little bit about where you were before that program and then sort of how that supported you.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think let love in was another example of some things that I had worked on pre-baby. That came up for me in new ways again post-baby, originally when I was struggling with work and anxiety. I took a lot of that out on my husband and I learned in therapy and self-help of how to feel those emotions on my own and work through them without them manifesting as anger. So the problem was I was letting things like boil up, boil up, boil up until it would explode as anger. I was holding everything in at work all day long. I felt like I was wearing a mask and then I would come home and the real me would pop out on my husband, who hadn't done anything wrong, and I also felt like there were these expectations on what a good wife did that.
Speaker 2:I had to break down Things like cooking dinner every night and keeping the house clean and all these really archaic standards that I don't believe in out loud but I was acting on internally.
Speaker 1:So he wasn't asking you to do all that.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 2:He was not asking me to do those things. And that was the big aha moment, when I was complaining in therapy about making dinner and being stressed and blah, blah, blah. And she was like did your husband ever ask you to make dinner? Did you ever ask him if this is important to him? I was like no, I did not. And when I did he was like, yeah, I don't care about dinner, I'll help with dinner. We can order out, we can have him, you just have to ask. Yeah, you just have to ask.
Speaker 2:And so a lot of that work was really foundational for me and probably helped us get to this point, quite honestly. So it was really hard to be around when I was really anxious. But he's an amazing guy and I found myself into that same kind of pattern postpartum and going back to work, not stressed about the work itself, but stressed about stretching myself, stressed about the mental load that moms carry and just really trying again to be present and not feeling like he was doing the same and just struggling to find our stride as a couple in this new role as parents and getting back to feeling that love like you talk about. So when I saw the program, I was like, oh my god, yeah, that's what I need. That's what I need, and through it I learned some really cool tools to help me get there. And I remember, when you first started talking about feminine energy, thinking like, ah, because that to me sounded like the old me that thought I had to make dinner at least and I consider myself a feminist.
Speaker 2:Like I believe a marriage is an equal partnership. All those things at times is like feminine and like I'm not gonna, like you know, put on an apron and become a 1950s housewife, but that's not what it is at all.
Speaker 2:And you can still be a 50-50 marriage while still being in your feminine energy and that is the coolest thing that I learned and I've seen how that works like magic and it's just a really good reminder when I'm feeling myself get irritated about something like slowing down, softening, opening and really remembering to acknowledge my husband and his feelings too, has just really opened us back up and it's something that I have to remind myself of all the time, but it's really transformed our relationship.
Speaker 1:Oh, so good. And again, another example of I wish I had these tools when my kids were little. I really and also you're an example to so many of my listeners that like, in that stage, no, marriage doesn't have to be on the back burner. Like, yes, your physical needs have to be met first, right. Like you're not gonna be turned on 24 seven because you are having sleepless nights and yes, that is and your hormones are out of whack postpartum. Like that's a normal, biological, biologically correct thing that is happening within our bodies. And yet the way it presents itself is from more disconnection.
Speaker 1:And I think my biggest goal with Let Love In is how can we use those moments to really bridge the connection and call him forward a lot more, to actually show up for you in the ways that you want? Because and I would love to hear kind of Chris's experience of it, because I know for me with Paul it was like he didn't say this, but it was basically like I want your crazy, like I want to be a part of it. I wanna support you in it, I wanna be the person you go to. I don't want you to always go to your girlfriends or your mom or your sister, I wanna be that safe place but you have to let me in. So that's part of the Letting Love In. Is letting him in right, would you say like did Chris share anything after the program? I'm just kind of curious.
Speaker 2:Not specifically. And I don't remember I don't remember. I know we talked to him about the program at some point, but I remember a bunch of us I think it was one of the first homework assignments where we were assigned to play a song and dance with our husbands and all of the women were panicking.
Speaker 2:Yes, like the sheer panic of having to initiate not sex but a dance is frightening. And I know I wasn't the only one who hadn't told my husband I was doing this program because I didn't want him to think something was wrong.
Speaker 1:Right right, right right.
Speaker 2:Because it wasn't like. You know, we're on the verge of divorce, so I'm signing up for a marriage program. It was just like I just wanna feel better.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, men are all the same. That's what Paul thought.
Speaker 2:Right and I remember talking about like, how do we bring this up with our husbands? I feel like he was really supportive of it. He always is, and I think letting him in was something I had to learn earlier on and luckily I've pulled that through. You know, into this phase of my life. I feel like I am really open with him. He I wear my heart on my sleeve and he knows what I'm feeling and he's really really good about taking care of me and embracing his masculine when I do open up and share, Like they're very much fixed fixers and they want to try to help. And something else that I've learned is to, because sometimes you don't wanna be fixed, Sometimes you're just venting, and so a thing that we'll say is do you want me to fix it or feel it Ooh? And it just means like, do you wanna vent or are you trying to problem solve?
Speaker 1:So good and that did not come from me, that is yours. I love that. Do you wanna? Do you need it fixed? Do you need to fix it or feel it? That's beautiful.
Speaker 2:Do you want me to fix it or feel it? Yeah, so just actually that's more Like it's a little bit same.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's more of that masculine right. That container, like setting the container for this, this conversation is huge for our men, because nobody knows how to love you better than you know. So share that with him. Sharing that with him is what and I say this all the time when we said it in the group. I'll say it again intimacy is into me, you see. So it is allowing him to see all parts of you, not just this polished corporate mom who has balance, and it's allowing you to see that shit.
Speaker 1:I just I wrote this whole book and now I'm having to relearn all of this, and doing that so vulnerably has been amazing. So I love that. And I love that you didn't tell him you were in the program, that you still just showed up and you embodied these. That's the beautiful thing about this work is they will notice, like Paul always notices. His biggest response is just you're nicer, you right, like I just noticed that you're nicer and I'm like okay, but you can do your own work and greatly impact a relationship just by shifting your energy, which is the whole premise behind let love in. So is there anything else you'd like to share about that program?
Speaker 2:I had a thought that I forgot. Okay, I was gonna say something, but I don't remember. That's okay.
Speaker 1:If it comes back to you, share it. I would love to just tie this conversation in a nice little bow and have you so with all of the work that you've done. Yes, some of the work has been with me, but a lot of the work, all of the work, has been with yourself, Like you could have taken all of my tools and just let it go. But you practiced it, you embodied it, you showed up in Voxer, you asked to be called out, you asked for feedback, right, so I'm not taking credit for any of where you are today. That is all on you, and it's been such an honor to be a part of your journey and to be able to witness.
Speaker 1:I've witnessed the range. You've come to me in tears. You've come to me mad. You've come to me in guilt. You've come to me excited. You've come to me doubting yourself, and it's been such an incredible journey, such an incredible journey, and I know that you're a lifer like you're gonna be in my life forever and I would love to just hear from your wisdom. If there is a mom sitting there with a young child, maybe she works in the corporate area, but maybe she just wants something else in her life, what would be your biggest advice on where to start Cause I think that's the almost always the most overwhelming part for a mom who's already tapped out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the first thing in prioritizing yourself is finding the time, because that seems to be a mom's like. First gut reaction is I don't have time, and so I would ask you to be really critical with how you're spending your time and, like, even do like a time audit and look at how you're spending your time. That's good.
Speaker 2:And see where those pockets are, where you could be using your time differently, like how much time are you spending scrolling at the end of the night? What are you doing right after you put the baby to bed? Yes, what are you doing in the morning? What time do you wake up? What are you doing on your lunch hour? What are you doing before bed? And see how you could spend those hours, or even 30 minutes, on yourself on the things that you're seeking.
Speaker 2:Whether that be getting outside for a walk or some other sort of physical exercise, whether it's doing something creative, like it was for me getting back to writing, doing anything creative really like fills up my bucket and so it's important to me to have that time. Or something else Maybe it's getting out for a girls night or whatever it may be. You have to figure out what's missing in your life first, like what's the piece that's missing for you, and then carve out that time for it. And a big part of carving out that time is also asking for help.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Because you do. You have a little one that relies on you now and it's really easy to just say no, I can't, but you could. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's something big that I've learned in my marriage too. Not gonna articulate this, well, we'll work it through Bye. Essentially, if you're irritated, say, you get an invitation to go to a girl's night and you're like, well then my husband is going to have to put her to bed by herself, and that's he's going to get frustrated because she's really cranky at bedtime and I always do that, so that's my job. I do the nighttime, he does the morning, so I have to do that, okay. Well, either you're going to be annoyed at bedtime or he's going to be annoyed at bedtime, so someone's going to be annoyed and it's back to boundaries. It's okay if he's annoyed, so he doesn't have to enjoy it. He's still willing. He probably, if you ask him, is willing to do it for you, even though it will be frustrating, just like you would have been willing to not go and be frustrated, like both things can be true.
Speaker 1:That is huge and very relevant, very relevant. So okay, sorry, I don't know what I thought, but that's so good.
Speaker 2:So good yeah, so learning to ask for that support so you can find that time for yourself. And then the big one is being okay with their reaction to it. And I had to learn that first with making dinner of like someone's going to be annoyed making dinner, it's not a fun task.
Speaker 1:With the toddler.
Speaker 2:Weekend and I've got a ton of time. I don't love cooking, neither does he, but we have to eat Right and somebody's got to do it. It's like cleaning the toilet Someone's going to have to do it, everyone's going to enjoy it.
Speaker 2:So, somebody has to, and it's the same with some of these difficult toddler tasks. It's okay for them to be upset and then not upset, but you know they'll be frustrated maybe with having to do something on their own. That's okay. Yeah, you can offer them the same thing Like hey, I really need to take a girl's night this Wednesday. Could you take bedtime? I'm happy to do the same for you if you want to get out over the weekend.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and even the same. No, I love that and I will say watching you on your journey. I think the more that you allowed your emotions to come forward and sat with them, versus guilting yourself through them, the easier at least from my perspective. Sitting on the opposite side of the screen, it's been easier for you to hold space for Sophie and Chris, Would you agree? Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mom will eat you alive.
Speaker 1:It will eat you alive. Yeah, and then the last thing I just want to highlight. What you said is you will always make time for what you value. So bumping yourself up to that, that priority list is huge, and you do it so effortlessly and beautifully. And is there anything else related to your book or your journey, just some like departing words of wisdom that you would love to share? I think you've given the moms listening a great place to start and I'm going to link your book. I'm going to link how they can confine you and learn from you. But is there anything else you would love to share before we?
Speaker 2:I think the other big thing for my journey that I'm revisiting right now is being in tune with your emotions on a day to day basis, and I'm figuring out how to do this in this new season of life is checking in with yourself and understanding when you're getting a little bit anxious, you're getting frustrated, before it boils over and you explode on your toddler or your husband or your friend or your coworker or whatever.
Speaker 2:So just checking it, making that time to check in with yourself daily, is really, really important and to feel those emotions. It's not about stuffing them down, it's feeling them through, and something that I'm trying right now and I'll report back if this is working for me. But my daughter's in daycare at my work. So I get in the car and I drive, like you know, probably like a football field to the daycare center, so I don't have any transition time between ending a stressful work day and picking up my oftentimes melting down toddler, hungry, tired, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:And what I did yesterday was I just sat in my car for about 10 minutes and it was just like I'm feeling really frustrated today because of XYZ. No, you know what. It's actually a little bit of anxiety. That frustrated is maybe the secondary emotion. I'm anxious because I'm going on vacation next week and I'm leaving Sophie for the first time. So I'm worried about getting all my work stuff in order and I'm worried about leaving her and is she going to understand that we're coming back and are my parents going to be okay? You know she's going to give them a hard time and so just acknowledging that and giving it a moment before I went to pick up Sophie.
Speaker 2:And then what I did was I visualized putting all that frustration and anxiety in a jar and I put it up on a high shelf and then I went and picked up Sophie with a more positive mind frame and it worked. It worked. But importantly, what I did was after she went to bed. I always take 10 minutes for myself to meditate whatever, and I journaled on it last night. So I took the jar back down, opened up the frustration and I thought about, like what's going on here? And then I was able to, after feeling it, put some reframes in place about the self coming trip to make me feel a little bit better.
Speaker 1:I love that. So you made a date with your anxiety A little bit later. I love it.
Speaker 2:I was like I'll see you later. Anxiety, not now.
Speaker 1:Not today, double Not today. I love it, I love that, I love that and I love that transition time. That's a huge thing that I do teach specifically in Love In is giving yourself that time right, giving yourself that transition time, and that's such an easy, tangible thing for busy moms to do. And if you're not in the corporate world like before your husband gets home, taking those 10 minutes letting the kids read a book or have quiet time or however you want to do it and just taking time to get into your body and connect to your body. I love that example, I love your wisdom, I love who you are and how you show up in this world and, yeah, I'm just so grateful to be a part of your journey. So thank you, kelsey, for being here.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, bridget, this was fun.
Speaker 3:That wraps up this episode today. I hope you learned something new and or are able to take away a fresh perspective to apply to the moments in your life. Remember to rate the podcast, share it with someone you love or leave a review. I'm always grateful for your time and I'm always rooting for you to wake up and thrive. I'll see you guys next week.